Glimpses from the Times Literary Fest Bangalore 2019- 3

In this third and final post on the Times Literary Fest Bangalore 2019, I am sharing the discussion that happened between Mr Devdutt Patnaik and Ms Shoba De on the subject "RAJNITI, RAJDHARMA AND THE GAME OF THRONES" The questions were posed by the latter. Here is a brief  profile of the two participants in the conversation:- 

Shobhaa De is a renowned journalist, columnist, social commentator, opinion-shaper and the best-selling author of more than 20 books. Her column in TOI named ‘Politically Incorrect’ is one of the most widely read columns in India.   

Devdutt Pattanaik is an “Author, Speaker, Illustrator, Mythologist”. He has written 30 books, his latest book being 'Ramayana Versus Mahabharata: My Playful Comparison'. He has also written 600 columns on relevance of mythology in modern time over the past 20 years. Some of his other books are 'Jaya', 'Sita', 'Business Sutra', 'My Gita', 'Girl who Chose and Boys who Fought', etc. 

Question :  How would you distinguish between "Rajneeti" and "Rajdharma" ?  

Answer:  In "Rajdharma", the duty is more important than the "Raj"(ruling) of the state. The duty of the administrator  is to help the helpless and remove anarchy (अराजकता). "Rajneeti" is more about winning elections. As between "Stage craft" and "State craft", in present times the former is thriving with everything having becoming theatrical.  

In the race of  "Winning" Vs" Being Right", the former has become the clear winner. The general  policy is "Everything is fair in love and war"  and that  "You become right if you win". It is about the winner taking all and applying the Matsya-nyaya (Law of the fish- the big fish has the right to eat the small ones). We celebrate successful people, not necessarily good people. 

Question: A good leader is said to be a good communicator. Our PM today speaks a lot, but not directly to the people?  

Answer: It is not a matter of just talking. The question is are we "talking to" or "talking at" people. Both the Shank( Proclamations and announcements) and the Chakra (Review)  of what we promised or set out to do are important. A good communicator also needs to engage in both-counselling and appreciation.  

Question: As a part of effective administration, there is an important need to travel  and get to know the needs and feelings of the people. Our PM does this a lot. Your comment?   

Answer: It is not the act of travelling itself that is important. The question to be asked is "Am I doing it for me or for you?" 

Question: India has had a great oral tradition of samwads and debates.The present generation of  people seem to be losing this art. They also seem to be uncomfortable taking instructions. Do political leaders need training in these aspects?   

Answer: I have conducted workshops for aspiring politicians. They are encouraged to speak out about their insecurities and feelings of not being respected. They are also told not to confuse 'Fear' with 'Respect'. Real leaders empower their followers instead of creating fear. 

Question: These days Rajneeti (politics) does not seem to be in the interest of general human good. It has more to do with 'Ahankar'(arrogance). Comment:   

Answer: Today, we have a situation of USA wanting "to be great again" at the cost of humanity or India wanting to be ahead at the cost of her neighbours. The family tends to become more important than the state. We have seen instances of this in our epics like Ramayana but have not learnt from them-  Rama who is more competent and suitable to rule the kingdom is banished to the forest by his father Dasaratha, due to family compulsions rather than the good of the people. 

Question: What sort of a leader is the need of the hour in India?- A Rama or a Krishna?  

Answer: What we need is a Ramakrishna having the qualities of both Rama and Krishna. The righteousness and fairness of a king like Rama and  a charioteer friend  like  Krishna, who can also play Holi with the ordinary folk and understand their needs and aspirations. 

Question: In the Mahabharata, at the end Arjuna has a breakdown seemingly smitten by Krishna?  

Answer: In the Gurukuls, the disciples adored the Guru. They loved him and listened to him but did not necessarily understand him. similarly, the words of Krishna helped Arjuna to tide over the situation of remorse and do his duty. Yet the teachings were too huge for him to retain and utilize effectively for a life time. 

Question: How do you see the strong polarization on religious lines these days? 

Answer: I see this as a reaction to incorrect implementation of secularism. Religion cannot be rejected. Denial of religion has resulted in its coming back in it's worst form. This too shall pass.

Question: What is the distinction between "Hindutva" and "Hinduism"? 

Answer: Hindutva is more about the 'samprataya' (concept-practice) which is a part of the big umbrella of 'Hinduism'. The ultimate aim is 'Atmagyan' ( Understanding self). Yet, one cannot understand self without understanding others.  

Another session at the Times Literary Fest, that I briefly attended was titled "Rethinking Pornography" and the participants were Ms SreeMoyee Piukundu (Dubbed the Queen of Indian Erotica, her latest book is a compilation of her own journey as a 40-year-old single woman interspersed with interviews of 3000 others, including disabled women and those belonging to the LGBTQ community) and Ms Richa Kaul Padte (the author of Cyber Sexy, a book on rethinking pornography publishing by Penguin Random House India) . The discussion was moderated by Mr Aditya Gautam  ( Author of Pornistan: How to Survive the Porn Epidemic in India).  

One would have thought that the subject would invoke interesting insights into why  a rethinking is necessary in respect of the way society looks at  pornography. How this change in perception will benefit society in general and children in particular?  Why the panelists believe that sexual freedom of both male and female is the need of the hour? In their opinion has the institution of marriage served its time and is no longer relevant in the present times? If so what is the alternative to it?

 Sadly, fifteen to twenty minutes into the discussion (on a topic one would have thought  very interesting)) . it became progressively dull with the panelists less interested in discussing issues I mentioned above. They were  reeling out statistics of the number of women in small towns and mini cities who have now become bold and are willing to satisfy their sexual needs and fantasies. This has been made possible by the huge opportunities and anonymity that the social media has provided.

According to the panelists, today many women even in  B / C class cities, cutting across  age groups order sex toys (object or device used for sexual stimulation or to enhance sexual pleasure)   on the internet. They gave out statistics and other details which I am unable to share with readers as I did not note them down.

The audience consisted of  predominantly the younger generation. After some time, I noticed a few young couples leave the venue. I had been feeling distracted and uninterested for some time. I took the cue and using the opportunity, quietly left the place of discussion midway. It would be fair to say that many of the things that I wished to be discussed, may have come up much later in the interaction.

Yes, it may well have. But if you have gone for a movie, the onus is on the director to retain the interest of the audience right from  the first half hour so that the full movie is watched.  I feel that if the moderator had been an older person the subject could have been directed by him/her in a more purposeful and useful manner  such as the impact of the changes in sexual freedom on society ( positive & negative) and the way forward.

In this post, I have discussed two subjects that are so very different from one another. But then that was precisely the USP of the Times Literary Fest. that will be remembered for the sheer variety of its deliberations.